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  • MadAd - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    It still saddens my heart that over 20 years later the main PC industry still makes out that this outsized outdated form format which must only be fully populated by an absolute outlier user is what we all must need and floods the market with them to the point that to deviate means a lot of research and hand picking of parts to make something more suited to a PC of the 2020s.

    All it takes is for one major like AMD or Intel to make a stand and retire the format so each generation ATX releases work out to the same numbers as we see ITX releases now and expand micro and ITX to be the mainstream and they could revitalise the industry overnight.

    Till then I guess we will carry on seeing grotesquely over designed over engineered product reinvented year after year. I wonder what happened to that unbridled drive for innovation that made this industry?
  • quorm - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    I don't know, I've built several micro-atx systems in the past 20 years, but it seems like the least relevant form factor now. Personally, I like regular ATX for desktops, since the extra slots and space is sometimes useful, and it can still fit under a desk. Mini ITX has a clear place for compact builds, and it looks like there are at least 10 mini ITX x570 or b550 mobos for sale. Not sure what else you want to see in the relatively small market for enthusiasts who build their own pc.
  • OMGWhyMe - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    ITX has a real problem with getting multiple m.2 pcie slots, if not even one m.2 pcie slot.

    Only micro atx makes any sense.
  • quorm - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    Well, the majority of x570 and b550 itx boards have 2 m.2 slots. Not sure what you're referring to.

    Why does micro atx make more sense? When would you choose it vs. regular atx, when your budget is constrained?
  • OMGWhyMe - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    Yes, and those boards cost basically around $200+ for the ones that are 2 m.2 slots.

    For that kind of money, you might as well buy an ATX.

    What I'm referring to is finding several decent budget ITXs that includes at least 1 m.2 pcie slot for a particular socket.

    You might be able to find one or two for ITX but ATX and micro ATX there are pretty much 20-30+ different models that are available for each size that have at least 1 m.2

    The reason why the micro ATX makes more sense is that they are cheaper if not the same cost as a full size ATX, even for the same chipset, they have four memory slots vs 2, they also come with one pciex1 slot and they are still significantly smaller than a full-sized ATX.

    To really justify a mini ITX and the price premium they command you have to be using a really small case, also known as a mini-tower, if you are just using a mid-tower or a full-size tower it just doesn't make sense to purchase an ITX board.
  • quorm - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    Yes, the only reason to get micro atx over regular atx is cost, but not many enthusiast builders are that cost constrained.
  • OMGWhyMe - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link

    Yeah, kind of the point, if you are buying something smaller with fewer slots it should not cost as much as a full-size ATX. Mini-ITX is just too expensive for what you get.
  • Count Rushmore - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    I agree on M-ATX makes more sense now. Traditional ATX casings are getting more compact which forced many PC DIYers to mount their AIO in front of the case. IMHO that's not ideal, since the best place to mount AIO is at the top of the case. M-ATX m/b will gives that extra clearance needed to mount the AIO at the top of the case.
  • Adi6293 - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    The best place to put the aio is in the front if you have an air flow oriented case, if the airflow is restricted then you put it in the top of the case
  • Count Rushmore - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link

    Steve from Gamer Nexus covered about this in 1 of his video. Yes you get a few degrees lower temp IF you orient your AIO correctly in front of the case... BUT top mounting is the best for AIO longivity & to avoid pump noise (whgine).
  • tuxfool - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    my ITX board has two m.2 slots
  • goatfajitas - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link

    Mine too (has two)
  • OMGWhyMe - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link

    Didn't say didn't exist, those boards cost basically around $200+ for the ones that are 2 m.2 slots.

    For that kind of money, you might as well buy an ATX.
  • MetaCube - Friday, December 4, 2020 - link

    Literally every B550/X570 Itx board I've seen has two M.2 slots...
  • Adi6293 - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    So because you like tiny computer everyone have to use tiny computers?

    I use Lian Li 011 Dynamic XL, with 10 fans in it, it's massive but I like that way, I think micro atx should dissappear from the market, the most useless format ever
  • Tilmitt - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    micro-ATX is pretty useful. You still have multiple expansion slots. DTX or mini-DTX are great too.
  • Caparroz - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    Well, for someone with 10 fans genarating turbulence and noise inside a case you sure know something about useless stuff...
  • Operandi - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    Do whatever you want but that dosn't change the fact that ATX is a waste of space for 95% that use it, and don't proclaim that something is useless when objectively it makes the most sense by far from the perspective of what it offers in terms of performance relative to the space it consumes.
  • Tilmitt - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    AMD introduced DTX and mini-DTX both of which address this issue nicely. There are boards being released in this format too.
  • cbm80 - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    MicroATX doesn't save any (relevant) space. It's strictly a cost reduction. For the retail market, it doesn't make much sense.
  • inighthawki - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    Most people purchasing a gaming motherboard are not trying to optimize for space - and for those that do, smaller form factors exist. The markets for such boards are proportional to the availability. If that weren't the case, they wouldn't continue to make these boards.
  • Operandi - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    Could not agree more, ATX is a complete cluster-F mess. From it being a complete an total waste of space, to the none sense bulk of worthless wires that is the 24 pin ATX power connector to the fact that we have 2-3 KG graphic cards being installed into slots that weren't meant for cards half that weight. It really is time to rethink the standards, at least for the enthusiast market.

    That said mATX is the form factor that makes the most sense in terms of expandablity, cooling performance, and space, its just hard AF to find good mATX cases and boards.
  • goatfajitas - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link

    I dunno. I love my Mini ITX system, but I could really use another PCIe slot or two. Variety is good. There are alot of great mitx boards out there for all platforms.
  • MetaCube - Friday, December 4, 2020 - link

    Yeah, I cringe every time I see an Atx build with one GPU and two DIMMs.
  • Brane2 - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    What's the point of all these MoBo "articles" ?
    Just list differences WRT to previous gen in one short sentence.
  • Slash3 - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    Some of the actual differences on the X570 Taichi Razer vs standard:

    16 phase vs 14 phase VRMs (both with doublers - the Razer uses Vishay SIC654 50A, not 60A as suggested)

    ALC1220 with added ESS Sabre DAC

    Killer E3100G 2.5Gbit + Killer AX1650 WiFi 6 (regular used Intel i211AT 1Gbit + AX200 WiFi 6)

    Dual 8-pin Aux board power (vs 8+4-pin)

    Price is $399.99 USD.
  • Caparroz - Monday, November 30, 2020 - link

    So it's worse in almost every regard over the original board.
  • Slash3 - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link

    It's a small feature set change, neither worse nor markedly improved. Too expensive at $399, though.
  • jm3400 - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link

    That's a shame, I can't support a motherboard which requires you to install cloud software on your PCand register/sign into an account in order to control the RGB.
  • Rudde - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link

    Razer nowadays supports "guest" accounts, that is local unregistered accounts.

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