HStewart: Microcode fixes is one thing (impact on performance). Fixed on hardware level are different. Specially for the way Intel chips behave for Meltdown.
As for "legitimate". Just because we haven't seen one it doesn't means there isn't.
Governments agencies might have been exploiting this bug to spy. Hackers too, considering these issues makes "listening" pretty much silent.
I just think people are making a bigger deal out of this then needs - maybe gamers care about it - but the average customer would not care. Think about it logically it came from Google, they hate windows which is pretty much entirely and will likely be always x86 cpus. The make this even crazy - it back fire and found not just to be on Intel but with AMD processors and even ARM.
What checks has Intel bypassed? Spectre & Meltdown exploit side channel vulnerabilities. The security checks still occur as they should, but timing differences can be shown to infer data the checks prevent you from accessing directly.
When instructions are speculatively executed they bypass the check to verify that the instructions were running in the proper security context. The would-be-denied accessed memory is brought onto from main memory into every cache and only after the speculative memory access is finished the check is done to verify that memory was not supposed to be accessed. By stalling the speculative execution engine the memory is then read through the side channel vulnerabilities [which they have known about for the better half of a decade]. The speculative memory access check should be done before it is executed but Intel decided to gain more performance by only doing the check at a much later time (with memory side effects), and only if the speculative code result would not be discarded.
Security in any way, be it small or big is always a big deal. IMO 90% gamers out there are a bunch of kids out there who know diddly squat about computers except Cinebench and water cooling. Its the average people who SHOULD begin to care. Stuff like this should be shown on major news outlets and national television. Just because the average Joe doen't know what microcode is doesn't mean he shouldn't be protected. As for your point about Google, they may have had something to do with it but their own OS is no better.
"I just think people are making a bigger deal out of this then needs" You live in crazy town if you don't think people take this seriously! The greatest security threat making all computers in the last ~20 vulnerable to exploitation without leaving a trace behind! And just this morning 8 more variations of Spectre found! Anyone that doesn't want their secrets stolen would want this fixed on a hardware level! Eight new Spectre Variant Vulnerabilities for Intel Discovered - four of them critical by Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 05/03/2018 10:55 AM http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/eight-new-spectre...
Just because you weren't notified by your morning newspaper that your FB data, data from Equifax and countless other hacks was stolen and sold, doesn't mean it didn't or couldn't have happened. Callous attitude and an air of indifference like this is the reason people don't care much about security but then go out on candle marches and protests when stuff like this surfaces. Do you expect to know all the stuff that goes on behind our backs? Hundreds of thousands of DDoS, malware and phishing attacks are attempted everyday. Do you think you will know of every of those attacks?
Gigabyte's AM4 chipset list they sent a number of reviewers circa the 2nd Gen launch has Z490 having an additional 8x PCIe 3.0 (not 2.0) chipset lanes. Makes it more competitive with Intel's PCH on that front.
IMHO AMD absolutely does NOT trail Intel by a "large margin" when it comes to their chipsets, CPU wise "maybe a tad" taking certain metrics into account, but, things such as x399 are far more PCI-e lane density than what Intel currently offers, and on the average desktop boards (x370-470/B350-450) are very comparable OVERALL with just some design selections that may come at the cost of other ones.
Intel currently "wins" at IPC, yep, are about the same overall in regard to power usage (in the real world) can hit higher clock speeds (at the cost of more power and really taking a chance at killing a chip that uses thermal paste instead of proper solder...not me saying such there is mountains of evidence backing this)
again IMO I rather AMD these last 2 years (likely Rzen 2 for 2019 as well) are just a better overall platform with more robust chips that can actually handle the temperatures they may/may not push out, are they ferrari in every race they are put into, nope, but they very much are give more value for the $ spent, this much has very much been proven, does not hurt that the platform will be supported till at least 2020 (for the lions share of consumers what we have really is "good enough" for at least 2 more generations if all it takes is a drop in cpu upgrade, vs Intel normal way of constant socket changes for very little gained from doing so but sure as crud costs $$$$$$)
the naming schema is driven by sales and marketing. THey get feedback from retail. average joe consumer has no clue what they are buying and indeed just look at nrs. the higher the better.
Are they really that desperate to copy Intel chipset names so people talk about them more? Well, that's why you will never be the number 1, AMD, because you always try to be associated with Intel and allud to its products like they are something supperior, how we should look up to them instead of going your own way.
Can't think up their own names of chipsets, can't think up cpu name scheme.
I’d be a little more interested to know just *how* they’ll do an 8-core chip: Do they just add another two cores or will they cut out the GPU for it? Even if Intel has subsidized hurting Nvidia and ATI/AMD by including the iGPUs, essentially that’s stopped working when AMD started doing iGPU-less 8-cores on the cheap. So, will they make the 8-core without an iGPU to cut cost? Will they start offering 6-cores from recovered parts or even do a 10-core design so they can provide an “update” again? Pretty sure you could fit 4 full cores into the iGPU space…
Then, what’s the fabric between them going to look like? Is it going to be Xeon like (more difficult with the cache architecture splits they recently introduced, I guess) or will they actually follow AMD’s approach (or their own original Core2-quad) and “glue together” two smaller chips? After all they thrashed that approach so thoroughly, they might just do the same ;-)
Doing an 8-core as a cut&paste exercise from that they have today seems easy enough, but perhaps not good enough. I don’t think I’ll buy another CPU before shadow stacks and other control-flow integrity mechanism have arrived, management engines have been stripped to setup-only and cryptographic RAM and VM protection is in place even for affordable (consumer) parts. The risks of having to throw it all away, not just CPUs typically, because one of these vulnerabilities goes mainstream, are just too high.
And actually, without shadow stacks and control flow integrity, the current crop of AMDs don’t look more attractive either. I see RoP defenses as a bit more relevant than Spectre to be honest.
I was thinking of replacing my cheap B350 board with a better X470 STRIX, however this new Z490 chipset maybe hiding some interesting new features we do not yet know about. 4 extra PCIe lanes, to me anyway, does not warrant a name change, 4 extra lanes is nothing more than a X470+. The Z and the 9 needs to be greatly warranted with massive new features imo. My hope is that it has built in HBM2 and that every Z490 board will be the "true" high end boards for future AM4 APU's. Remember the fancy cache controller thing that is specifically designed to bring in remote resources? Well maybe the upcoming Picasso and Renoir APU's can make use of built in HBM2 on the mobo? Hell maybe Raven Ridge can too. That would be an amazing turn of events (And we all know AMD's goal is to disrupt, and that they clearly have the talent to do it). Intel put HBM2 directly on the Hades Canyon package, so AMD could be doing the same type of thing, but instead installing it directly into the motherboards chipset so that it doesn't affect possible future processor upgrades. This is just a fun thought, not a serious accusation. Would that be cool, or will you hate that idea?
As usual I'm left standing here with my dick in my hand wondering if we'll ever see a GAMING processor with lots of PCIe lanes for such things as a second video card, a high speed 8x raid controller and a 4 port 10gbit nic. SOmeone will say you need the TR or the 7900 HEDT - but they don't perform as well for gaming. Either they need the chipset to support 8x through and through with lots of PCIE lanes or they need to have the processor support about 64 PCIe lanes so all the PCIe slots go direct to the processor. I feel like I've been asking for this (along with others) for about 6 years now - it seems like intel is making virtually no forward movement.
The interesting processor element to this presentation is that it lists an 8-core Coffee Lake processor being launched in Q4, while also stating that engineering samples are going to be in the hands of OEMs in June.
Here you will see all categories which you can possibly imagine; from gaming to music and tech, Mobdro has them all. This is the main reason why people love Mobdro app so much, If you are among those people and want to download Mobdro for PC then you just landed on the right page, keep reading.
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JoeyJoJo123 - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Looks pretty legit. I'm still in the camp of waiting out on CPU purchases until Spectre/Meltdown are "patched" at a hardware level.Beaver M. - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Not to mention the newest batch of exploits...HStewart - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Old news - Intel CPU have Microcode fixes - plus there has never been a legitimate Spectre/Meltdown exploit out in the feel.tamalero - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
HStewart: Microcode fixes is one thing (impact on performance). Fixed on hardware level are different. Specially for the way Intel chips behave for Meltdown.As for "legitimate". Just because we haven't seen one it doesn't means there isn't.
Governments agencies might have been exploiting this bug to spy.
Hackers too, considering these issues makes "listening" pretty much silent.
HStewart - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
I just think people are making a bigger deal out of this then needs - maybe gamers care about it - but the average customer would not care. Think about it logically it came from Google, they hate windows which is pretty much entirely and will likely be always x86 cpus. The make this even crazy - it back fire and found not just to be on Intel but with AMD processors and even ARM.aebiv - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Intel knowingly bypassing the proper procedure and security checks for years in their pipeline is just a smear by Google?No, Intel did something for performance > security, and then told everyone that it was secure when it wasn't, for over a decade.
JlHADJOE - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
To be fair to Intel, they didn't know at all that it wasn't secure. It's not like they knew it wasn't and misled people for a decade.aebiv - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
When you purposefully BYPASS the checks in place that you claim are in place, someone, somewhere knew. Most likely, many people knew.Now this: https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Exclusive-Spectre-...
voicequal - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
What checks has Intel bypassed? Spectre & Meltdown exploit side channel vulnerabilities. The security checks still occur as they should, but timing differences can be shown to infer data the checks prevent you from accessing directly.sgeocla - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
When instructions are speculatively executed they bypass the check to verify that the instructions were running in the proper security context. The would-be-denied accessed memory is brought onto from main memory into every cache and only after the speculative memory access is finished the check is done to verify that memory was not supposed to be accessed. By stalling the speculative execution engine the memory is then read through the side channel vulnerabilities [which they have known about for the better half of a decade].The speculative memory access check should be done before it is executed but Intel decided to gain more performance by only doing the check at a much later time (with memory side effects), and only if the speculative code result would not be discarded.
Johan Steyn - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
How can you be so sure Intel did not know? They would do anything for performance to thrash competition.Ket_MANIAC - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Security in any way, be it small or big is always a big deal. IMO 90% gamers out there are a bunch of kids out there who know diddly squat about computers except Cinebench and water cooling. Its the average people who SHOULD begin to care. Stuff like this should be shown on major news outlets and national television. Just because the average Joe doen't know what microcode is doesn't mean he shouldn't be protected. As for your point about Google, they may have had something to do with it but their own OS is no better.goldstone77 - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
"I just think people are making a bigger deal out of this then needs" You live in crazy town if you don't think people take this seriously! The greatest security threat making all computers in the last ~20 vulnerable to exploitation without leaving a trace behind! And just this morning 8 more variations of Spectre found! Anyone that doesn't want their secrets stolen would want this fixed on a hardware level!Eight new Spectre Variant Vulnerabilities for Intel Discovered - four of them critical
by Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 05/03/2018 10:55 AM
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/eight-new-spectre...
vanilla_gorilla - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
>The make this even crazy - it back fire and found not just to be on Intel but with AMD processors and even ARM.So your theory is this was Google attacking Windows but they were too stupid to wonder if it affected ARM CPUs which somehow affects Google?
Did you really think this through?
Manch - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
HStewart, Dude, seriously. Just stop.Ket_MANIAC - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Just because you weren't notified by your morning newspaper that your FB data, data from Equifax and countless other hacks was stolen and sold, doesn't mean it didn't or couldn't have happened.Callous attitude and an air of indifference like this is the reason people don't care much about security but then go out on candle marches and protests when stuff like this surfaces.
Do you expect to know all the stuff that goes on behind our backs? Hundreds of thousands of DDoS, malware and phishing attacks are attempted everyday. Do you think you will know of every of those attacks?
HStewart - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
To me going though the YouTube video, it looks mostly like old news combine together internal marketing for there own products.gammaray - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
how can AMD get away with calling a new platform Z490 ?? or X399?plopke - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
I am just wondering what will the Z490 offer compared to the X470Cooe - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Gigabyte's AM4 chipset list they sent a number of reviewers circa the 2nd Gen launch has Z490 having an additional 8x PCIe 3.0 (not 2.0) chipset lanes. Makes it more competitive with Intel's PCH on that front.Dragonstongue - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
IMHO AMD absolutely does NOT trail Intel by a "large margin" when it comes to their chipsets, CPU wise "maybe a tad" taking certain metrics into account, but, things such as x399 are far more PCI-e lane density than what Intel currently offers, and on the average desktop boards (x370-470/B350-450) are very comparable OVERALL with just some design selections that may come at the cost of other ones.Intel currently "wins" at IPC, yep, are about the same overall in regard to power usage (in the real world) can hit higher clock speeds (at the cost of more power and really taking a chance at killing a chip that uses thermal paste instead of proper solder...not me saying such there is mountains of evidence backing this)
again IMO I rather AMD these last 2 years (likely Rzen 2 for 2019 as well) are just a better overall platform with more robust chips that can actually handle the temperatures they may/may not push out, are they ferrari in every race they are put into, nope, but they very much are give more value for the $ spent, this much has very much been proven, does not hurt that the platform will be supported till at least 2020 (for the lions share of consumers what we have really is "good enough" for at least 2 more generations if all it takes is a drop in cpu upgrade, vs Intel normal way of constant socket changes for very little gained from doing so but sure as crud costs $$$$$$)
jjj - Thursday, May 3, 2018 - link
Ian is fixated on this, he keeps repeating it in every article since Ryzen launched.Maybe that's why it's 10 to 1 for Intel vs AMD mobo reviews.
Johan Steyn - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Maybe you can remember Ian's Threadripper review. He was the only one that gave it a very bad review, which he later had to re-review.realistz - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Shameful display from AMD. X399 and z490. It’s like they’re trying to trick customers into thinking they’re buying Intel.duploxxx - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
the naming schema is driven by sales and marketing. THey get feedback from retail.average joe consumer has no clue what they are buying and indeed just look at nrs. the higher the better.
Maxiking - Friday, May 4, 2018 - link
Are they really that desperate to copy Intel chipset names so people talk about them more? Well, that's why you will never be the number 1, AMD, because you always try to be associated with Intel and allud to its products like they are something supperior, how we should look up to them instead of going your own way.Can't think up their own names of chipsets, can't think up cpu name scheme.
abufrejoval - Saturday, May 5, 2018 - link
I’d be a little more interested to know just *how* they’ll do an 8-core chip: Do they just add another two cores or will they cut out the GPU for it? Even if Intel has subsidized hurting Nvidia and ATI/AMD by including the iGPUs, essentially that’s stopped working when AMD started doing iGPU-less 8-cores on the cheap. So, will they make the 8-core without an iGPU to cut cost? Will they start offering 6-cores from recovered parts or even do a 10-core design so they can provide an “update” again? Pretty sure you could fit 4 full cores into the iGPU space…Then, what’s the fabric between them going to look like? Is it going to be Xeon like (more difficult with the cache architecture splits they recently introduced, I guess) or will they actually follow AMD’s approach (or their own original Core2-quad) and “glue together” two smaller chips? After all they thrashed that approach so thoroughly, they might just do the same ;-)
Doing an 8-core as a cut&paste exercise from that they have today seems easy enough, but perhaps not good enough. I don’t think I’ll buy another CPU before shadow stacks and other control-flow integrity mechanism have arrived, management engines have been stripped to setup-only and cryptographic RAM and VM protection is in place even for affordable (consumer) parts. The risks of having to throw it all away, not just CPUs typically, because one of these vulnerabilities goes mainstream, are just too high.
And actually, without shadow stacks and control flow integrity, the current crop of AMDs don’t look more attractive either. I see RoP defenses as a bit more relevant than Spectre to be honest.
SkOrPn - Saturday, May 5, 2018 - link
I was thinking of replacing my cheap B350 board with a better X470 STRIX, however this new Z490 chipset maybe hiding some interesting new features we do not yet know about. 4 extra PCIe lanes, to me anyway, does not warrant a name change, 4 extra lanes is nothing more than a X470+. The Z and the 9 needs to be greatly warranted with massive new features imo. My hope is that it has built in HBM2 and that every Z490 board will be the "true" high end boards for future AM4 APU's. Remember the fancy cache controller thing that is specifically designed to bring in remote resources? Well maybe the upcoming Picasso and Renoir APU's can make use of built in HBM2 on the mobo? Hell maybe Raven Ridge can too. That would be an amazing turn of events (And we all know AMD's goal is to disrupt, and that they clearly have the talent to do it). Intel put HBM2 directly on the Hades Canyon package, so AMD could be doing the same type of thing, but instead installing it directly into the motherboards chipset so that it doesn't affect possible future processor upgrades. This is just a fun thought, not a serious accusation. Would that be cool, or will you hate that idea?boe - Monday, May 7, 2018 - link
As usual I'm left standing here with my dick in my hand wondering if we'll ever see a GAMING processor with lots of PCIe lanes for such things as a second video card, a high speed 8x raid controller and a 4 port 10gbit nic. SOmeone will say you need the TR or the 7900 HEDT - but they don't perform as well for gaming. Either they need the chipset to support 8x through and through with lots of PCIE lanes or they need to have the processor support about 64 PCIe lanes so all the PCIe slots go direct to the processor. I feel like I've been asking for this (along with others) for about 6 years now - it seems like intel is making virtually no forward movement.jameswhatson - Wednesday, May 16, 2018 - link
The interesting processor element to this presentation is that it lists an 8-core Coffee Lake processor being launched in Q4, while also stating that engineering samples are going to be in the hands of OEMs in June.Here you will see all categories which you can possibly imagine; from gaming to music and tech, Mobdro has them all. This is the main reason why people love Mobdro app so much, If you are among those people and want to download Mobdro for PC then you just landed on the right page, keep reading.
https://7downloads.com/download-mobdro-for-pc-wind...