It's still fine for the midrange. An octacore A53 setup doesn't make that much sense though. I would prefer a quad-A53 and quad-A72 setup for the midrange. Whatever it is, Mediatek chips are still behind on power consumption compares to Qualcomm - the octa-A53 Snapdragon 625 isn't as fast as comparable Helios but the battery life with that chip is stupendous.
Yup, snapdragon 660 should be considered as midrange. Even dual core a72 + quad a53 will do quite a good job. But most manufacturers are hell bent on octa a53s as they give a higher profit margin (and maybe better battery life)
This is why I've lost all interest in the mobile market. Three-four years ago, the new mid-range was last years (or at least the year before that's) high end. These days, this year's mid-range is last year's mid range with some polish, which again was the previous year's mid-range with some polish. A53 was the Small cluster in the Note 4 way back in 2014. That's three years ago! And it wasn't even the fast core back then!
Not that better ISPs and modems aren't crucial (trickle-down of features is very important to improving low-cost smartphones, after all), but in my eyes this is simply insufficient performance. After all, this will likely be slower than the SD801 in the Xperia Z2 I ditched half a year ago, which was again three or so years old. What's going on?
If you'd told me in 2012 that PC CPUs were where the innovation would be in 2017, I would have laughed out loud. Today? That's the reality.
Today midrange should have at least 1 fast core for decent single-thread performance, and it should be A75. Plus 4 or more A55s. Not a single fast core = entry level performance.
Next year we will probably see 1x A75 and 7x A55 in decent midrange phone SoCs. That is a configuration ARM talked about specifically as dealing with the single-thread problem without using too much more die space. I believe we are still stuck with TSMC 16nm for midrange however, so don't expect much in the way of clock improvements or meaningful power consumption improvement.
12 nm in Q1 2017 and mid rangers will be 2 A73 plus 4 A53. probs the jump to A75 will be in 2018 but qualcomm will do its premium mid ranger with it (like the 660 is to the 835).
Mediatek cant go for a A73 cores because its more than double the size of an A53 core. 12nm will have roughly the same costs per wafer as 16 nm though so it will be cheaper per transistor, as it will have more of them, there we might see A75 in late 2017 from mediatek.
Weird naming scheme, you would think P27 and P30 would have worked better. Also weird that P30 is not a SD660 competitor on 12nm, how do they name that one? Anyway, for a 10$ SoC, P23 is nice enough.
Any clue if the modem uses MIPS I-class CPUs like with the X30?
Still not sure why we have 8 core A53s. perf of the A53 isnt that much better than the A35, but consumers more power, is also an older uArch. a quad or Octo-core A35 setup seems like it would have been better
I mean, whilst true, there is also a reason we didnt see any Octa-Core Cortex A9 chips. A7 might be slightly less powerful, but overall the pros outweigh the cons.
Cortex-A9 maxed out at 4 cores, whereas both the A7 and the A53 were designed to scale much better, and since the cores are so small it incentivizes vendors to plop down as many as possible rather than trying to fit big cores.
Maybe the entry level SoCs next year will move to dual A55 and quad A53, if that's a workable solution. However it's more likely they'll just do quad A55.
The current gen midrange SoCs are basically a process shrink "tick" so it's not surprising to see A53 still used ubiquitously. I imagine next year will see a lot more newer ARM cores.
I think the supposed mid range SOC is getting stagnant. I think we have been seeing these octa core solutions that is actually very slow. The gap between the high end and mid range is growing.
Could also be that SoC and device makers don't want the midrange to cannibalize flagship sales. Last year's Snapdragon 650/652 put flagship processing power into cheap sub-$200 phones. For this year's cheap to midrange devices, the slower but more efficient Snapdragon 625 is being used.
The 653 didn't see mainstream release and I think the just-released 660 could also see limited use, probably going into almost-flagship devices. I've got 12 hours screen-on time on my $200 Xiaomi Mi Max with a 652, I don't think we'll see a similar combo of low prices, long battery life and strong performance anytime soon.
It is a shame because they're are some really beautiful looking phones out there sporting these socs such as the oukitel k6, k10, vernee x, and ulefone power 3 which are really tempting me. Huge battery power, 18:9, 5.99-6.0 inch screens and robust materials. Very affordable price point. I wouldn't call them entry level. That is a bit strong but haven't made that leap into the upper end of the mid range market.
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fred666 - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
A53 is outdated, I wouldn't consider it mid range anymore.serendip - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
It's still fine for the midrange. An octacore A53 setup doesn't make that much sense though. I would prefer a quad-A53 and quad-A72 setup for the midrange. Whatever it is, Mediatek chips are still behind on power consumption compares to Qualcomm - the octa-A53 Snapdragon 625 isn't as fast as comparable Helios but the battery life with that chip is stupendous.leo_sk - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
Yup, snapdragon 660 should be considered as midrange. Even dual core a72 + quad a53 will do quite a good job. But most manufacturers are hell bent on octa a53s as they give a higher profit margin (and maybe better battery life)lmcd - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
Battery life is worse on equivalent workloads.Valantar - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
This is why I've lost all interest in the mobile market. Three-four years ago, the new mid-range was last years (or at least the year before that's) high end. These days, this year's mid-range is last year's mid range with some polish, which again was the previous year's mid-range with some polish. A53 was the Small cluster in the Note 4 way back in 2014. That's three years ago! And it wasn't even the fast core back then!Not that better ISPs and modems aren't crucial (trickle-down of features is very important to improving low-cost smartphones, after all), but in my eyes this is simply insufficient performance. After all, this will likely be slower than the SD801 in the Xperia Z2 I ditched half a year ago, which was again three or so years old. What's going on?
If you'd told me in 2012 that PC CPUs were where the innovation would be in 2017, I would have laughed out loud. Today? That's the reality.
peevee - Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - link
Today midrange should have at least 1 fast core for decent single-thread performance, and it should be A75. Plus 4 or more A55s.Not a single fast core = entry level performance.
psychobriggsy - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Next year we will probably see 1x A75 and 7x A55 in decent midrange phone SoCs. That is a configuration ARM talked about specifically as dealing with the single-thread problem without using too much more die space. I believe we are still stuck with TSMC 16nm for midrange however, so don't expect much in the way of clock improvements or meaningful power consumption improvement.jOHEI - Sunday, October 15, 2017 - link
12 nm in Q1 2017 and mid rangers will be 2 A73 plus 4 A53. probs the jump to A75 will be in 2018 but qualcomm will do its premium mid ranger with it (like the 660 is to the 835).Mediatek cant go for a A73 cores because its more than double the size of an A53 core.
12nm will have roughly the same costs per wafer as 16 nm though so it will be cheaper per transistor, as it will have more of them, there we might see A75 in late 2017 from mediatek.
jOHEI - Sunday, October 15, 2017 - link
replying to my own comment, i meant Q1 2018 and late 2018mikekc - Sunday, October 28, 2018 - link
A53 is safe from spectre and meltdown. It is certainly being used in current chips as of october 2018 so not out of date.jjj - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
Weird naming scheme, you would think P27 and P30 would have worked better.Also weird that P30 is not a SD660 competitor on 12nm, how do they name that one?
Anyway, for a 10$ SoC, P23 is nice enough.
Any clue if the modem uses MIPS I-class CPUs like with the X30?
Mobile-Dom - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
Still not sure why we have 8 core A53s. perf of the A53 isnt that much better than the A35, but consumers more power, is also an older uArch. a quad or Octo-core A35 setup seems like it would have been betterkfishy - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
Cortex-A35 is closer to an A7 while the A53 is closer to the Cortex-A9, so I doubt you'd actually want to swap them except for entry level SoCs.Mobile-Dom - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
I mean, whilst true, there is also a reason we didnt see any Octa-Core Cortex A9 chips. A7 might be slightly less powerful, but overall the pros outweigh the cons.kfishy - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
Cortex-A9 maxed out at 4 cores, whereas both the A7 and the A53 were designed to scale much better, and since the cores are so small it incentivizes vendors to plop down as many as possible rather than trying to fit big cores.lmcd - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
4x A35 + 2x A72/A73 would be the dream middle-level SoC.psychobriggsy - Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - link
Maybe the entry level SoCs next year will move to dual A55 and quad A53, if that's a workable solution. However it's more likely they'll just do quad A55.SydneyBlue120d - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
Is Galileo supported on these chips?prateekprakash - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
I am in desperate need of a dsds volte chipset, but from Qualcomm I'd prefer...SydneyBlue120d - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
DSDV is already supported in the Qualcomm Snapdragon X20 modem, I think you will find it on Snapdragon 845 chipset coming in 2018 smartphones :)r3loaded - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
> octa-core Cortex-A53 setupSomewhere in ARM, multiple eyes are twitching at this "more cores are better!!" type of marketing.
kfishy - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
The current gen midrange SoCs are basically a process shrink "tick" so it's not surprising to see A53 still used ubiquitously. I imagine next year will see a lot more newer ARM cores.watzupken - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
I think the supposed mid range SOC is getting stagnant. I think we have been seeing these octa core solutions that is actually very slow. The gap between the high end and mid range is growing.serendip - Monday, August 28, 2017 - link
Could also be that SoC and device makers don't want the midrange to cannibalize flagship sales. Last year's Snapdragon 650/652 put flagship processing power into cheap sub-$200 phones. For this year's cheap to midrange devices, the slower but more efficient Snapdragon 625 is being used.The 653 didn't see mainstream release and I think the just-released 660 could also see limited use, probably going into almost-flagship devices. I've got 12 hours screen-on time on my $200 Xiaomi Mi Max with a 652, I don't think we'll see a similar combo of low prices, long battery life and strong performance anytime soon.
haukionkannel - Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - link
So true. Anything that has 72 or better is considered high end and priced accordingly.Angelinaz - Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - link
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It is a shame because they're are some really beautiful looking phones out there sporting these socs such as the oukitel k6, k10, vernee x, and ulefone power 3 which are really tempting me. Huge battery power, 18:9, 5.99-6.0 inch screens and robust materials. Very affordable price point. I wouldn't call them entry level. That is a bit strong but haven't made that leap into the upper end of the mid range market.