Investigations into Socket 939 Athlon 64 Overclocking
by Jarred Walton on October 3, 2005 4:35 PM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
Introduction
Note: This article is an in-depth look at overclocking. We'll cover how to do it, what sort of performance you can achieve, problems and potential solutions, etc. Overclocking can be frustrating, rewarding, fun, and dangerous. We don't mean "burn the house down" dangerous, but you could certainly end up ruining some or all of your computer components. We take no responsibility for any difficulties or losses you may experience by using the information in this article, and we certainly take no responsibility for any damage that may occur to any person, place, or object. The manufacturers of the parts that we are using are also not accountable for any loss/damage that may occur - most companies void your warranty for overclocking. It's a risk, and it's your risk - proceed with caution. Finally, overclocking is never a "guaranteed result". You may or may not match the results that we achieve. We'll be happy to offer suggestions if you need them, as will many of our forum members. Patience and research are part of overclocking as well, so please understand that you may have to do some work on your own. If you can accept those warnings, we hope that you enjoy this article.
Back in the day, overclocking was in some ways simpler than what we see now. You would typically buy a mid-range processor and then try to increase the bus speeds as much as possible in order to get the most performance out of your system. Older Pentium chips also allowed you to change the multiplier, so with some luck, you might get your 2.5X multiplier on a Pentium 166 up to 3.0X, resulting in a 33 MHz overclock. Other than a few special chips like the Pentium M and Athlon FX, increasing multipliers is no longer possible. The modification of bus speeds can still be used, but it isn't necessarily the best or only way to try to overclock your system. We have mentioned overclocking performance in many articles, but we haven't taken the time to really explore all the options out there. We also know that current Intel and AMD setups have very different options and performance when overclocking is used, so we want to look at that as well.
Before we branch out into AMD vs. Intel comparisons, however, let's talk about the past top performers. The Celeron 300A is fondly remembered by many people, and with good reason. Yes, we have had some other good parts in the intervening years, like the 2.4 GHz Northwood cores, the low end Prescott cores, and the Athlon XP-M Barton parts. However, when you look at the 50% overclock of the Celeron 300A (and it wasn't just possible, it was common), none of the other parts have really ever approached that level of overclocking without some serious investment in cooling options. (Some people even managed to get the 300A to 504 MHz - an amazing 68% overclock!) Northwood's 2.4 GHz to 3.2 GHz is still an impressive 33% overclock. The 2.4 GHz to 3.6 GHz Prescott overclock (using the 2.4A) actually matches the 50% of the 300A, but you sacrifice some features (HyperThreading and high FSB speeds) with the lower model parts. Meanwhile, the overclocking darling that was the XP-M 2500+ "only" managed a typical overclock of 1.87 GHz to 2.4 GHz, a 29% overclock.
That brings us to the part that we're investigating today. It is arguably the best overclocking platform since the old Celeron 300A: AMD's Venice core. One thing that we didn't mention above is the role that price plays for many overclockers. Sure, the Athlon-FX can reach clock speeds and performance that most other chips only dream about, but at a cost of roughly $900 just for the processor, a lot of people will only read about it. What made the 300A so attractive was that it was not only a monster overclocking chip, but it cost around $150 and competed with $500 chips. That's why the 2.4C and 2.4A Pentium 4 are also well regarded; they cost under $200 and could compete with chips that cost two to three times as much. The price of entry for the cheapest Venice core (the 3000+) is once again very low; $120 for the OEM model, or $145 for the retail version.
We'll get into the details more in a moment, but for now, we'll just say that the 3200+ may actually be a better choice, and that's what we are using for this article. We are also using the retail model, and some people will say that retail parts tend to overclock better than the OEM chips. We'll simulate 3000+ overclocking using a 9X CPU multiplier, but that may or may not be an entirely accurate representation of 3000+ overclocking performance. In general, though, what we're hearing is that almost all of the Venice cores can run at very high clock speeds with a bit of effort, so there isn't a huge difference between 3000+ parts binned for 1.8 GHz and 3800+ parts binned for 2.4 GHz. AMD has simply set the package to use a maximum 9X multiplier on the former and a 12X multiplier on the latter. Talking about CPU multipliers leads us into the real meat of the discussion, though, so let's get into it.
Note: This article is an in-depth look at overclocking. We'll cover how to do it, what sort of performance you can achieve, problems and potential solutions, etc. Overclocking can be frustrating, rewarding, fun, and dangerous. We don't mean "burn the house down" dangerous, but you could certainly end up ruining some or all of your computer components. We take no responsibility for any difficulties or losses you may experience by using the information in this article, and we certainly take no responsibility for any damage that may occur to any person, place, or object. The manufacturers of the parts that we are using are also not accountable for any loss/damage that may occur - most companies void your warranty for overclocking. It's a risk, and it's your risk - proceed with caution. Finally, overclocking is never a "guaranteed result". You may or may not match the results that we achieve. We'll be happy to offer suggestions if you need them, as will many of our forum members. Patience and research are part of overclocking as well, so please understand that you may have to do some work on your own. If you can accept those warnings, we hope that you enjoy this article.
Back in the day, overclocking was in some ways simpler than what we see now. You would typically buy a mid-range processor and then try to increase the bus speeds as much as possible in order to get the most performance out of your system. Older Pentium chips also allowed you to change the multiplier, so with some luck, you might get your 2.5X multiplier on a Pentium 166 up to 3.0X, resulting in a 33 MHz overclock. Other than a few special chips like the Pentium M and Athlon FX, increasing multipliers is no longer possible. The modification of bus speeds can still be used, but it isn't necessarily the best or only way to try to overclock your system. We have mentioned overclocking performance in many articles, but we haven't taken the time to really explore all the options out there. We also know that current Intel and AMD setups have very different options and performance when overclocking is used, so we want to look at that as well.
Before we branch out into AMD vs. Intel comparisons, however, let's talk about the past top performers. The Celeron 300A is fondly remembered by many people, and with good reason. Yes, we have had some other good parts in the intervening years, like the 2.4 GHz Northwood cores, the low end Prescott cores, and the Athlon XP-M Barton parts. However, when you look at the 50% overclock of the Celeron 300A (and it wasn't just possible, it was common), none of the other parts have really ever approached that level of overclocking without some serious investment in cooling options. (Some people even managed to get the 300A to 504 MHz - an amazing 68% overclock!) Northwood's 2.4 GHz to 3.2 GHz is still an impressive 33% overclock. The 2.4 GHz to 3.6 GHz Prescott overclock (using the 2.4A) actually matches the 50% of the 300A, but you sacrifice some features (HyperThreading and high FSB speeds) with the lower model parts. Meanwhile, the overclocking darling that was the XP-M 2500+ "only" managed a typical overclock of 1.87 GHz to 2.4 GHz, a 29% overclock.
That brings us to the part that we're investigating today. It is arguably the best overclocking platform since the old Celeron 300A: AMD's Venice core. One thing that we didn't mention above is the role that price plays for many overclockers. Sure, the Athlon-FX can reach clock speeds and performance that most other chips only dream about, but at a cost of roughly $900 just for the processor, a lot of people will only read about it. What made the 300A so attractive was that it was not only a monster overclocking chip, but it cost around $150 and competed with $500 chips. That's why the 2.4C and 2.4A Pentium 4 are also well regarded; they cost under $200 and could compete with chips that cost two to three times as much. The price of entry for the cheapest Venice core (the 3000+) is once again very low; $120 for the OEM model, or $145 for the retail version.
We'll get into the details more in a moment, but for now, we'll just say that the 3200+ may actually be a better choice, and that's what we are using for this article. We are also using the retail model, and some people will say that retail parts tend to overclock better than the OEM chips. We'll simulate 3000+ overclocking using a 9X CPU multiplier, but that may or may not be an entirely accurate representation of 3000+ overclocking performance. In general, though, what we're hearing is that almost all of the Venice cores can run at very high clock speeds with a bit of effort, so there isn't a huge difference between 3000+ parts binned for 1.8 GHz and 3800+ parts binned for 2.4 GHz. AMD has simply set the package to use a maximum 9X multiplier on the former and a 12X multiplier on the latter. Talking about CPU multipliers leads us into the real meat of the discussion, though, so let's get into it.
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Powered by AMD - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Do not forget The Athlon XP 1700+ 1.5Volts, DLT3C, mines is OC from 1467 Stock to 2250 Mhz and pretty cool with an old Thermaltake Blower...It can ever reach 2450 Mhz but with 1.8 Volts.
hey, at 2250 Mhz its a 53% OC too!!
Great article but it will be useful for me only when I need an Athlon 64 :p
donkeycrock - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
i noticed that frys is selling x-connect (500 Watts)psu for 25 dollars after rebate. it is extremely heavy, and not many reviews say if they are very good PSU's for overclocking, anybody have knowladge about this PSU.thanks
brad
cryptonomicon - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
nice article jarred, and you worded the disclaimers perfectly, bravo.and its nice to see those ram comparisons. good to see those results on the latest a64 platform and confirm once again that the ram makes only a few percentage points difference, if that. shelling out all your dough on a good GPU, then buying the lowest model venice, a DFI board, and value ram is the way to go.
Googer - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
http://www2.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/Down...">AMD Thermal Grease List PDFRupertS - Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - link
Interesting, AMD only recommends thermal grease for short term use 'where the heat sink is removed and attached multiple times over a short period'. They definitely do not recommend it for long term use.StriderGT - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Both me, Zebo and many others have clarified long time ago in Anands forum the pointless struggle of purchasing extreme memory parts in Athlon64. Dividers and value ram will do the trick of excellent ocing giving you 95%++ of the performance someone gets with expensive and overvolted ram modules. Nice seeing anandtech come up with an article backing up the threads like this one (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid...">http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...mp;threa...PS For those owning MSI Neo3 m/bs -and even the rest- I have created back then an excel calculating the actual memory frequency with the various BIOS settings. Enjoy
http://www.geocities.com/gtstrider/">http://www.geocities.com/gtstrider/
JarredWalton - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Yeah, I've seen quite a few threads around the 'net on this, but AT hadn't covered it very well, and I hoped to get something "official" out there. (None of the enthusiast sites have really covered this that well, as far as I could see.) Since I've been fooling around with various AMD CPU overclocks for a year now, I figured others might like to see the possibilities. High-end, high-cost is well and good for dreams, but like most people I live a bit closer to reality. $200 is about as much as I'm willing to pay for a CPU in most cases.andyc - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
So you can basically overclock the 3000 to the same speeds the 3200 can? So it's not even worth it to go with the 3200?JarredWalton - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Well, perhaps. 9x300 requires a better motherboard than 10x270, though most boards than can handle 270 MHz CPU bus speeds will also handle 300 I think. For value overclockers, though, I don't think I'd bother spending the extra $50 on the 3200+, no. Spend it on the GPU instead (if you play games).Mogadon - Monday, October 3, 2005 - link
Great article Jarred, thanks for putting in all the hard work and time.I have one question regarding voltages. As I understand it, you wouldn't recommend running a VCore above 1.65V for a long term overclock. I understand the warnings and possible effects on the CPU with running a high VCore but I wanted to know if this is around the VCore that you would run on, say, your overclocked system?
The majority of people on the forums here don't really recommend going above 1.55V or 1.6V, i was wondering if you had any comments about this.