There's also been some confusion about HSPA+ support on the Veer. The issue stems from an assumption that 64QAM support is mandatory for a device to be 3GPP Release 7, which is absolutely not the case. Ironically, I left a lengthy comment explaining why that's the case in the HTC Inspire 4G HSUPA update story before all of this suddenly became an issue.

The long and short of it is that if a modem supports any 3GPP Release 7 features, it's a 3GPP Release 7 device, and thus 'HSPA+,' which is merely a colloquial label for enhancements added in Release 7. The reality is that none of the features in any release but the original WCDMA 3GPP release are mandatory, everything in each release since then is optional. Thus, features added in 3GPP Release 7 are optional - you don't have to implement every new feature to be able to call your modem HSPA+. Features supported by Qualcomm's MSM7230 inside the HP Veer that are from 3GPP Release 7 include UE DTX/DRX (discontinuous uplink transmission and receive), F-DPCH, and others. Qualcomm's MSM7230 and other current generation WCDMA SoCs include QPSK and 16QAM modulation on the downlink, meaning they are HSDPA 14.4 Category 10 devices. Downlink support for 64QAM will come in the next refresh. 

As of right now, to my knowledge the first shipping phone with 64QAM support was the Samsung Galaxy S 4G which includes an ST Ericsson THOR 5730 HSDPA 21 Mbps HSPA+ modem. Though 64QAM offers potentially faster speeds and better spectral efficiency, it requires accordingly better SNR than 16QAM and substantially more than QPSK, and as a result isn't used unless user equipment is close to the cell center. This behavior is easily measurable on devices like the Galaxy S 4G, whose engineering menus show a percentage breakdown of what frames were modulated using QPSK, 16QAM, and 64QAM. I've been working on performing extensive drive testing with that particular device to explore just this issue for some time now.

Further, the enhancements added in HSPA+ / 3GPP Release 7 cover far more than just the standalone addition of  64QAM. Release 7 adds HSDPA categories which include MIMO but exclude 64QAM support in addition to categories that exclude MIMO but include 64QAM. On the uplink it also includes 16QAM support which could enable upstream speeds of up to 11.5 Mbps. Other major features added are faster call setup and takedown, and reduced cellular signaling to alleviate some of the call and data session blocking issues which have affected a number of UMTS networks. The point of all this is that it's a grossly innacurate oversimplification to claim something is or isn't HSPA+ based on absence of 64QAM on the downlink. 

The long and short of it is that the HP Veer 4G, HTC Inspire 4G, and Motorola Atrix 4G are all definitely HSPA+ capable with 16QAM HSDPA 14.4 support. As an aside, I'm a bit surprised that this is suddenly an issue now since HSDPA 14.4 (Category 10) devices have been shipping for some time now under the HSPA+ banner to no complaint.

I've already started running endless throughput tests on the Veer 4G and thus far have been decently impressed with speeds.

They're right around what I'm used to seeing in my market, which AT&T has enabled HSPA+ support in. I've verified this using AT commands on a Sierra Wireless 308 AirCard. Speeds closer to the theoretical maximum for the UE category will only come with faster backhaul. AT&T is calling this 'enhanced backhaul' and isn't being totally clear about what cell sites have full support yet, though I'm told internally the list of sites that are upgraded with faster backhaul is quite short at the moment. 

This Just In: HP Veer 4G Impressions
Comments Locked


View All Comments

  • mythun.chandra - Monday, May 9, 2011 - link

    Nice overview Brian! Waiting for the full review before I go grab one :-)
  • codedivine - Monday, May 9, 2011 - link

    Highly looking forward to this review. Apart from the comprehenisve tests AT will put it through, some overview of the software will also be very useful.
  • alphacheez - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link

    This makes me somewhat hopeful that the Pre 3 with a faster (1.4 GHz?) processor can deliver some seriously competitive performance.

    I'm currently on an iPhone 3g and looking to upgrade this Summer and like what I've seen of WebOS. I hope HP can continue to update and upgrade the OS to match and even exceed the areas currently lacking compared to iOS and Android. If WebOS ends up faltering and failing I think it will be a real loss to everyone since there are a lot of interesting ideas and features in WebOS.
  • Brian Klug - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link

    I'm thinking the same thing, at 1.4 GHz MSM8x55 could definitely feel compellingly speedy in the Pre 3. As much as this launch confuses me by starting with the scaled down/smaller version of the phone preceding the flagship Pre 3 launch, it definitely has made me a bit more enthusiastic for the Pre 3 and rest of the WebOS lineup.

  • nafhan - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link

    I think this is essentially the GSM version of the chip that's in the Droid Incredible 2 - just downclocked by 200MHz. I have the first Droid Incredible, and I'd trade 200MHz of CPU clockspeed for a faster GPU.
  • ChuckDriver - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link

    I don't think that I am the target market for this phone, but the lack of those two features would be the deal breaker for me. I have three touchstones in various places for my Palm Pre Plus (thank you amazon for having such a good deal on them) but it still is nice to be able to use a friend's charger if I'm riding around in a car or am without my own charger. Also, I enjoy picking out a good set of headphones and listening to podcasts and music on my phone. Maybe keeping track of the adapters would not be difficult, but I do tend to lose track of these things and the downside is that these will not be readily available at a local store for a reasonable price.

    That said I'm happy to hear the oreo effect has been remedied and look forward to seeing the Pre 3.
  • sicofante - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - link

    I'm appaled by this. I was looking forward to buying a Veer. I just hate the huge size of current touch phones and this was ideally sized for my tastes. The lack of these two standard ports is a total showstopper for me.

    Bye Veer. :-(
  • softdrinkviking - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link

    If this has decent viewing angles and is reasonably visable outside, I'll be in line for it.
  • jramskov - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link

    "The only compromises the Veer does make as a result of its miniscule size are lack of a microUSB port and 3.5 mm audio jack,"

    I simply refuse to believe that they couldn't make room for a microUSB port instead of their proprietary charging solution.

    No matter though, I doubt HP will have much succes with these either. Where is the model without a physical keyboard?
  • Johnmcl7 - Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - link

    The similarly tiny SE X10 Mini Pro packs in a 3.5mm jack, micro-USB and removable battery although it is deeper it packs a much better keyboard.


Log in

Don't have an account? Sign up now